Revised.
If we are to take Breishis literally, and the universe is 6,000 years old, then how does this reconcile with science ? It seems to me that people are no longer claiming that science is total bunk, since the scientific evidence for most things is pretty solid. Nowadays it seems that Jewish fundamentalists are content to go along with the famous Gosse theory. In this post I shall explore this theory.
The Gosse Theory
Phillip Henry Gosse, who was somewhat of a naturalist/scientist, could not ignore the geological evidence for an old universe. However being a born-again fundamentalist Christian, he could not ignore Genesis either. His solution was to accept the evidence, but claim that G-d created the world 'complete', in a fully formed state. Hence all the things you would expect in a fully formed earth, for example old rocks and fossils were all created directly as is. Here is some good information on Gosse and his life. He published his theory in the book Omphalos in 1857. You can buy Gosse’s book here, and here's an interesting article on why Gosse’s theory did not get much support when it came out. In the introduction to Omphalos, Gosse himself said he got the idea from some pamphlet he saw 20 years earlier, but that he was unable to find any trace of this pamphlet at the time of writing.
Lubavitcher Rebbe
The Lubavitcher Rebbe picked this theory up and from there it spread to the frum world. As to where the Rebbe got it, he may have heard it while he was in university, or maybe he figured it out himself. Most likely he heard it from someone else.
Sources In Gemarah
Some claim that this theory has its basis in the Gemarah. Rosh Hashanh 11a and Chullin 60a talk about animals being created fully formed. There is also a Gemarah where it says that Adam was created as a fully formed 20 year old, so you do see the concept that some things were created fully formed.
Issues
There are a number of issues with the theory. Objections fall into two general categories:
1. Theological
2. Philosophical
Note that there are no scientific objections to this theory, since the theory accepts all the science as being accurate from our vantage point, but just that G-d created everything this way.
1. Theological Objections
Most theologists (or is it theologians) have an issue with G-d creating a “fake” old earth. This would be misleading in the extreme, and would almost be a form of deceit, or sheker. Plus Judaism has always had the concept of G-d working within Derech Hatevah, and not subverting it.
Spme people seem not to be bothered by this, for the following reasons:
a) Its all a nisayon to test our emunah. It’s okay for G-d to trick us as long as it’s a nisayon.
b) The alternative is to say Bereishis in (literally) untrue, which also seems somewhat deceitful. So faced with a choice of calling the universe deceitful or the Torah deceitful, they will choose the universe.
Others object to this reasoning:
a) There is no tradition in Judaism of G-d creating fake metzius. The Gemarah about Adam is not to be taken literally. Alternatively, even if it is literal, there is a big difference between creating something fully formed, and creating lots of fake evidence, e.g. Fake cave paintings and buildings.
2) Taking the Torah nion-literally has a mesorah, especially the Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim.
I haven’t seen this much discussed, but I have the feeling that there are other objections too. When you think about it, it’s not really such a clean theory. Just saying G-d created an ‘old’ world in 6 days, complete with fossils and all, doesn’t really solve the problem. For example, there are continuous records of civilization in certain places. Also, buildings or other remnants in the US, Australia and other remote regions, even after creation, must be fake up to a point (maybe dor haflagah) because man did not live there. So G-d created a 'complete' world, but in addition created lots of fake artifacts which looked younger than they really are, as opposed to older.
Either way, this whole line of reasoning has nothing much to do with science at all, since the scientific evidence is being accepted as real. Everyone agrees that G-d could certainly have created the world fully formed, had He so desired, and also done as many nisim as required. So it ends up being an argument about theology, not science. Would G-d have done this or not ?
2. Philosophical Objections
From a philosophical point of view, this theory presents a problem too. If the world is fake, then maybe it was all faked up last Thursday, and everything before then is a false memory. This has been called “Last Thursdayism”, I think by Bertrand Russell.
Some people are not bothered by this, probably because
a) They haven’t really thought about it
b) Its not a kashye. Sure everything could be fake from 5 minutes ago, but the Torah says the world was created 6000 years ago, so we know the emes.
Does taking Breishis literally mean accepting Gosse as the standard peshat ? Does it matter that this peshat most likely came from a Christian source ?
Nes
In addition to the Gosse Theory, you also need a major dose of nes (miracle). For example the Gosse theory does not help out with the fact that a global flood is a scientific impossibility, or that there is plenty of scientific evidence that there was no global flood. To answer these questions, you need the concept of nes. The flood was a nes, and the clean up afterward was too. Likewise the dispersion of dor haflagah, the dispersion of animal species from the Ark, and many other similar events.
Some people object to this liberal dose of Nes, because traditionally Judasim has tried to limit nes. For example the Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim.
Similarly, you need nes to answer all the strange science and animal descriptions in the Gemarah, for example spontaneously generated lice. Once lice were seen to be born like other creatures, a new chiddush appeared, called 'nishtaneh hatevah' (nature has changed). Clearly, from a scientific point of view this is impossible too (as are any changes due to a global flood), so you must say this is a nes too. It is unclear when exactly the tevah changed according to this theory, but it must have been some time after the Gemarah, and before the first recorded event of someone looking into a microscope and seeing that lice had babies.
If you read some of the Christian fundamentalist literature, they go to great lengths to show how all of Bereishis could be literally true. For example, how could Adam have named all the animals in one day ? The answer is he ran really fast since he had superhuman powers, being a direct creation of G-d. To their credit (I think ?), the Jewish fundamentalists don’t bother with all this nonsense, they just call it all a nes and be done with it.
The bottom line is that with a combination of the nes and nisayon explanations, all of Bereishis, and in fact all other scientific objections can be explained away quite neatly. Obviously, the Jewish fundamentalists can’t call it the Gosse Theory (or the Menachem Mendel Theory).
I therefore propose that from now on we call this the “The Nes-Nisayon Theory for Life, the Universe and Everything.”
Monday, January 31, 2005
Monday, January 24, 2005
GH Classic: Gedolim vs Ketanim
A lot has been written recently about the Science vs Torah conflict. Suprisingly, very few have written on the Gedolim vs Ketanim conflict. Let me be the first ! Here I faithfully reproduce a debate between two imaginary personalities of mine, I mean to say two good friends of mine.
Representing the gedolim, we have Moshe Shmuel Meshuganeh, of Kollel Ayn Torah in Bnei Beserk. On the other side, representing the ketanim, is Rabbi Leatherkippah, of Congregation Modern Orthoprax of Oyvayizmere.
The Debate
MSM: Judaism has always had a very strong notion of trusting the great gedolim. This idea can be traced way back in our mesorah.
RLK: Yeah, all the way back to the first gedolim who said that we have to trust the gedolim. Isn't that a circular argument ?
MSM: Every movement needs leadership. A movement without leadership will collapse. And who is best suited to lead this movement ? Clearly the people who spend all day studying its laws, its history, its ideology. The greatest sages of the generation.
RLK: Yes, but these are also people who waste no time on other matters, cloistered in their own small world without any real connection to the rest of the world.
MSM: We have to trust the gedolim. That's how orthodox Judaism has always been and will always be. Its a fundamental belief, and you can't change it. If you don't like it, fine, go start a new religion, but it won't be orthodox Judaism.
RLK: But the gedolim are out of touch with a major segment of their own constituency. Many, many formerly quite charedi people have bee turned off by this latest ban. If this is the case, surely something is wrong ?
MSM: The only people who are turned off are those whose yirash shamayim and emunas chachomim is suspect anyway.
RLK: But the slifkin ban has shown them to have a complete lack of knowledge about accepted concepts such as science. Statements such as "science is poetry", "science is not metzius", "science is the roof not the foundation" are commonplace.
MSM: First of all, the gedolim have no need for science. Second of all, through learning Torah, they understand all of science anyway.
RLK: But they ban without due process. The whole way this ban was conducted was unfair. They ruined someone's life without even agreeing to talk to him. How could they be so unfair ?
MSM: They are the gedolim. They know what they are doing. You have to trust them.
RLK: They seem to spend a lot of time disagreeing with each other and other parts of klal yisroel. Why do they spend so much time fighting ?
MSM: You have to fight for what you believe in don't you ? That's a mitzvah.
RLK: Their actions don't seem to be the actions of gedolim. Gedolim are supposed to be super saintly people, we see little evidence of that here.
MSM: What do you expect them to do ? Go run soup kitchens ? They are busy leading klal yisroel. They have no time for petty gemilus chasadim. Any anyway, if you read their biographies you will see they are all very saintly.
RLK: They seem to be more concerned with bugs, wigs and heresy than with the major issues of the day. Shouldn't they be worried about Tsunamis, the Middle East, Atheism or some real issues ?
MSM: What do you mean ! Bugs, wigs and heresy are the major issues of the day ! You are just a kofer. You are banned !
RLK: And you are a narrow minded buffoon. You are banned !
Thus this scholarly debate ends.
However I am still conflicted. RLK seemed to have some good arguments, didn't he ? However we can't ignore MSM, can we ? I came up with a few potential answers:
Its not them, its their shomrim.
The gedolim are in actual fact very good, holy and learned people. However they are totally sheltered by their shomrim, who mislead and deceive them. They are so naive as to not realize the true situation. Hmmm.
I am a katan. I will never understand.
I am a katan. I am biased by treife external influences, lack of yiras shomayim, yetzer horah, and general katnus. I can't trust my instincts, or my thoughts, I have to surrender my ability to think. Hmmm.
These are not the real gedolim
The real gedolim are not the ones who signed the ban. They are the ones who didn't sign the ban. The ones who kept quiet. The ones who are still keeping quiet even in the face of a major injustice. Hmmm.
Its just a power struggle in the chareidi world
The whole thing is just a power struggle between the more fundamentalist EY gedolim and the more liberal US gedolim for dominance over the charedi world. Its not for MO consumption and doesn't apply to the MO community. The gedolim have to engage in these kind of power struggles by nature of their leadership. Hmmm.
There are no true gedolim these days
The era of the true godol has long passed. The current crop of gedolim are really just people who have played the game right and are now heads of various institutions, but are not particularly saintly people. Chazal, the Rishonim and the Acharonim are really the true gedolim. Hmmm.
So what do you think ?
Representing the gedolim, we have Moshe Shmuel Meshuganeh, of Kollel Ayn Torah in Bnei Beserk. On the other side, representing the ketanim, is Rabbi Leatherkippah, of Congregation Modern Orthoprax of Oyvayizmere.
The Debate
MSM: Judaism has always had a very strong notion of trusting the great gedolim. This idea can be traced way back in our mesorah.
RLK: Yeah, all the way back to the first gedolim who said that we have to trust the gedolim. Isn't that a circular argument ?
MSM: Every movement needs leadership. A movement without leadership will collapse. And who is best suited to lead this movement ? Clearly the people who spend all day studying its laws, its history, its ideology. The greatest sages of the generation.
RLK: Yes, but these are also people who waste no time on other matters, cloistered in their own small world without any real connection to the rest of the world.
MSM: We have to trust the gedolim. That's how orthodox Judaism has always been and will always be. Its a fundamental belief, and you can't change it. If you don't like it, fine, go start a new religion, but it won't be orthodox Judaism.
RLK: But the gedolim are out of touch with a major segment of their own constituency. Many, many formerly quite charedi people have bee turned off by this latest ban. If this is the case, surely something is wrong ?
MSM: The only people who are turned off are those whose yirash shamayim and emunas chachomim is suspect anyway.
RLK: But the slifkin ban has shown them to have a complete lack of knowledge about accepted concepts such as science. Statements such as "science is poetry", "science is not metzius", "science is the roof not the foundation" are commonplace.
MSM: First of all, the gedolim have no need for science. Second of all, through learning Torah, they understand all of science anyway.
RLK: But they ban without due process. The whole way this ban was conducted was unfair. They ruined someone's life without even agreeing to talk to him. How could they be so unfair ?
MSM: They are the gedolim. They know what they are doing. You have to trust them.
RLK: They seem to spend a lot of time disagreeing with each other and other parts of klal yisroel. Why do they spend so much time fighting ?
MSM: You have to fight for what you believe in don't you ? That's a mitzvah.
RLK: Their actions don't seem to be the actions of gedolim. Gedolim are supposed to be super saintly people, we see little evidence of that here.
MSM: What do you expect them to do ? Go run soup kitchens ? They are busy leading klal yisroel. They have no time for petty gemilus chasadim. Any anyway, if you read their biographies you will see they are all very saintly.
RLK: They seem to be more concerned with bugs, wigs and heresy than with the major issues of the day. Shouldn't they be worried about Tsunamis, the Middle East, Atheism or some real issues ?
MSM: What do you mean ! Bugs, wigs and heresy are the major issues of the day ! You are just a kofer. You are banned !
RLK: And you are a narrow minded buffoon. You are banned !
Thus this scholarly debate ends.
However I am still conflicted. RLK seemed to have some good arguments, didn't he ? However we can't ignore MSM, can we ? I came up with a few potential answers:
Its not them, its their shomrim.
The gedolim are in actual fact very good, holy and learned people. However they are totally sheltered by their shomrim, who mislead and deceive them. They are so naive as to not realize the true situation. Hmmm.
I am a katan. I will never understand.
I am a katan. I am biased by treife external influences, lack of yiras shomayim, yetzer horah, and general katnus. I can't trust my instincts, or my thoughts, I have to surrender my ability to think. Hmmm.
These are not the real gedolim
The real gedolim are not the ones who signed the ban. They are the ones who didn't sign the ban. The ones who kept quiet. The ones who are still keeping quiet even in the face of a major injustice. Hmmm.
Its just a power struggle in the chareidi world
The whole thing is just a power struggle between the more fundamentalist EY gedolim and the more liberal US gedolim for dominance over the charedi world. Its not for MO consumption and doesn't apply to the MO community. The gedolim have to engage in these kind of power struggles by nature of their leadership. Hmmm.
There are no true gedolim these days
The era of the true godol has long passed. The current crop of gedolim are really just people who have played the game right and are now heads of various institutions, but are not particularly saintly people. Chazal, the Rishonim and the Acharonim are really the true gedolim. Hmmm.
So what do you think ?
Saturday, January 15, 2005
GH Classic: Moral Relativism - Another message from the ACAKW
In our untiring quest for apologetics, we have found a great new approach ! Yes, dear kiruv projects, its our old friend "Moral Relativism". You remember that from your not so frum college days right ? Remember how you used to argue that Israel is no different from South Africa, they are both apartheid states ? Those were the good old days. Everyone and everything was all the same. America was just as bad as Russia. Sleeping around and doing drugs was no different than holding down a good job and building a family.
Well we have good news for you. In your quest for frumkeit, you don't have to abandon this concept at all ! No, in keeping with the jewish tradition of taking from the secular world and making it holy, we can take the concept of Moral Relativity and apply it to charedi apologetics.
Here's how it works. Lets say some books gets banned by the charedi world. Lets say even that the author was given no chance to defend his views. Lets even say that the author has impeccable traditional sources. Well, so what ? Don't we ban holocaust revisionism ? Don't we ban hate-inducing literature ? Don't they claim to have impeccable sources ! Its all the same ! We ban, they ban, its all the same ! So you see dear friends, the charedi world is not that different from the outside world after all.
No, wait a minute, what are we saying ! 'The charedi world is not that different from the outside world' ! Thats not the message we want to convey at all. Of course there is a difference, there has to be ! Yes, the charedi world is very different from the outside world. In the outside world, there is much discussion and debate, possibly even a court hearing before something is banned. However in the charedi world, there is no due process, we just ban ! See, we are different after all ! Boruch Hashem.
Well we have good news for you. In your quest for frumkeit, you don't have to abandon this concept at all ! No, in keeping with the jewish tradition of taking from the secular world and making it holy, we can take the concept of Moral Relativity and apply it to charedi apologetics.
Here's how it works. Lets say some books gets banned by the charedi world. Lets say even that the author was given no chance to defend his views. Lets even say that the author has impeccable traditional sources. Well, so what ? Don't we ban holocaust revisionism ? Don't we ban hate-inducing literature ? Don't they claim to have impeccable sources ! Its all the same ! We ban, they ban, its all the same ! So you see dear friends, the charedi world is not that different from the outside world after all.
No, wait a minute, what are we saying ! 'The charedi world is not that different from the outside world' ! Thats not the message we want to convey at all. Of course there is a difference, there has to be ! Yes, the charedi world is very different from the outside world. In the outside world, there is much discussion and debate, possibly even a court hearing before something is banned. However in the charedi world, there is no due process, we just ban ! See, we are different after all ! Boruch Hashem.
GH Classic: Some changes at this blog
Carefully astute readers of this blog may have noticed some slight changes. I have cut out all the letzonus, especially when gedolim are involved. It was funny, but wrong. If you have some of these posts in your possesion, please do not distribute them.
Well, maybe not all letzonus. I still spoof the ACAKW, but thats because :
(a) They are not gedolim (maybe I am wrong)
(b) They seem to enjoy it
(c) They are so spoofalicious I can't help myself.
Note: if the ACAKW would like me to remove those posts too, just let me know.
Thanks.
Well, maybe not all letzonus. I still spoof the ACAKW, but thats because :
(a) They are not gedolim (maybe I am wrong)
(b) They seem to enjoy it
(c) They are so spoofalicious I can't help myself.
Note: if the ACAKW would like me to remove those posts too, just let me know.
Thanks.
Friday, January 14, 2005
GH Classic: Wot no lamdonim ?
Do no lamdonim read my blog ? Only atheists and letzim ?
I post a blog on the Vilna Gaon - no comments.
I post an inciteful piece on Azaria Dei Rossi - no comments (well 1 comment but it was peripheral)
I post a beautiful yet provactive moshol comparing orthodox judasim to a ship which has hit an iceberg - no comments (well 1 comment but that was from an Atheist)
However I post letzonus, and everybody says what a talented guy I am. Oy vey.
Don't you know that I am a Gilbert Studious wannabee ? I guess that means I will have to learn a lot more though. As much as my wife hates me wasting time blogging, she doesn't like it too much when I go off and learn every night either. Don't get me wrong, she is a saintly woman, (if you can call someone who is addicted to the OC saintly), but she needs help with the kids. I say, lock em in their room and they will be okay. Wot, they need toys ? They need attention ? Nonsense. When I was a kid they used to stick me in a paper bag in the middle of a swamp for days on end and I turned out okay.
I post a blog on the Vilna Gaon - no comments.
I post an inciteful piece on Azaria Dei Rossi - no comments (well 1 comment but it was peripheral)
I post a beautiful yet provactive moshol comparing orthodox judasim to a ship which has hit an iceberg - no comments (well 1 comment but that was from an Atheist)
However I post letzonus, and everybody says what a talented guy I am. Oy vey.
Don't you know that I am a Gilbert Studious wannabee ? I guess that means I will have to learn a lot more though. As much as my wife hates me wasting time blogging, she doesn't like it too much when I go off and learn every night either. Don't get me wrong, she is a saintly woman, (if you can call someone who is addicted to the OC saintly), but she needs help with the kids. I say, lock em in their room and they will be okay. Wot, they need toys ? They need attention ? Nonsense. When I was a kid they used to stick me in a paper bag in the middle of a swamp for days on end and I turned out okay.
GH Classic: And one more thing
I know you all think my profile is very clever. However there is no place for comments on my profile. So here is your own very special place for those comments. (Yes, I am a middle child, give me some attention !!! Maybe thats what happens when you spend your childhood in a paper bag in the middle of a swamp).
Here is my profile again, just in case you missed it:
prax: haredi/modern
dox: haredi/modern/heretical
sox: blue/gray
box: married/children/suburbia
Here is my profile again, just in case you missed it:
prax: haredi/modern
dox: haredi/modern/heretical
sox: blue/gray
box: married/children/suburbia
GH Classic: Godol Hador - Banned !!!
In a surpising turn of events today, the Godol Hador was banned, ironically by Rabbi Slifkin himself !
"While I enjoy a good laugh, this event should not be turned into an opportunity for letzonus" said Rabbi Slifkin. "Youre banned !!!" he exclaimed, before going out for a walk with his pet iguanas round Ramat Chayot.
In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with the good Rabbi, there will be no more letzonus from now on. Slightly humorous quips are still okay. However spoofs are right out.
Although nobody has yet claimed to have been offended in any way, and in fact some of the spoofees have stated publicly that they have enjoyed my posts, I am concerned that there may be people out there who were indeed offended. To those who may have been offended, I sincerely apologize. My intent was just to inject some humor into the situation, as many people (on both sides) including myself were getting rather stressed out about the whole thing. I had tried to make the letzonus so over the top that this would be clear, but maybe it wasn't.
It was never my intent to make any real fun of any choshuv people (chas vesholom). Whilst we may not always agree with the Gedolim, they are still the Gedolim, and I am no Godol by comparison. In fact I am not even a koton by comparison. I am a flea on the koton. Actually, not even that. I am the dust on the shoe of the flea on the koton. Or maybe I am the flea on the dust on the shoe of the flea on the koton.
Thank you and keep smiling.
Note
To all you gullible conspiracy theorists out there. I was not pressured. I was not threatened. Rabbi Slifkin did not really ask me to stop, I am sure he has better things to do than read my blog. The truth is I am not really too keen on letzonus, thats all. What started out as a silly comment on someone elses blog turned into a worldwide phenomenon which must be stopped.
"While I enjoy a good laugh, this event should not be turned into an opportunity for letzonus" said Rabbi Slifkin. "Youre banned !!!" he exclaimed, before going out for a walk with his pet iguanas round Ramat Chayot.
In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with the good Rabbi, there will be no more letzonus from now on. Slightly humorous quips are still okay. However spoofs are right out.
Although nobody has yet claimed to have been offended in any way, and in fact some of the spoofees have stated publicly that they have enjoyed my posts, I am concerned that there may be people out there who were indeed offended. To those who may have been offended, I sincerely apologize. My intent was just to inject some humor into the situation, as many people (on both sides) including myself were getting rather stressed out about the whole thing. I had tried to make the letzonus so over the top that this would be clear, but maybe it wasn't.
It was never my intent to make any real fun of any choshuv people (chas vesholom). Whilst we may not always agree with the Gedolim, they are still the Gedolim, and I am no Godol by comparison. In fact I am not even a koton by comparison. I am a flea on the koton. Actually, not even that. I am the dust on the shoe of the flea on the koton. Or maybe I am the flea on the dust on the shoe of the flea on the koton.
Thank you and keep smiling.
Note
To all you gullible conspiracy theorists out there. I was not pressured. I was not threatened. Rabbi Slifkin did not really ask me to stop, I am sure he has better things to do than read my blog. The truth is I am not really too keen on letzonus, thats all. What started out as a silly comment on someone elses blog turned into a worldwide phenomenon which must be stopped.
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